tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post5272829057202924713..comments2023-10-19T06:08:33.289-04:00Comments on Shinzen's Blog: Meet My New Girlfriend: tDCSShinzenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07744561308696460214noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-41941842185993329962015-04-02T01:02:52.417-04:002015-04-02T01:02:52.417-04:00This from The Economist, regarding Prof. Horvath&#...This from The Economist, regarding Prof. Horvath's study, which has been criticized for numerous methodological flaws: "Marom Bikson, a professor of biomedical engineering at City University of New York, disagrees. “I can literally make you fall on your butt using the ‘wrong’ type of tDCS,” he says. Dr Bikson thinks the biggest challenge for tDCS is optimising techniques, such as the dose."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-15450493452314681672015-01-28T16:34:13.684-05:002015-01-28T16:34:13.684-05:00Hi,
Greetings from Finland!
The science is comi...Hi,<br /><br />Greetings from Finland! <br /><br />The science is coming out and at a first glance, doesn't look too good:<br /><br />http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/ethics/brain-hackers-beware-scientist-says-tdcs-has-no-effect<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />MattiAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05343549436175255815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-50124353212103276212014-03-12T10:25:02.299-04:002014-03-12T10:25:02.299-04:00Hi Kaiser,
Thanks, that's useful info. I'm...Hi Kaiser,<br />Thanks, that's useful info. I'm going to pass it on to some of my friends working in this field.<br />All the best,<br />ShinzenShinzenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744561308696460214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-82721658536196061602014-03-12T02:41:37.816-04:002014-03-12T02:41:37.816-04:00Recently, a more advanced form of this tech has be...Recently, a more advanced form of this tech has become available: HD-tDCS, which utilizes montages of several smaller electrodes over the area being targeted to produce significantly more powerful and specific stimulation. A number of companies have developed wearable caps with electrodes already in place for easier set-up. At least one has software linking the tDCS to EEG activity in order to monitor the effectiveness of different programs for depression, pain, enhanced focus, etc. These devices are pricey and at present only sold in North America for research purposes, although all four that I am aware of (StarStim, MagStim, Neuroconn and Soterix) have been approved for clinical and private use in Europe. kaiserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06584055039517301848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-18699170744741918902014-01-22T15:40:32.300-05:002014-01-22T15:40:32.300-05:00For those that have tried both CES (alternating cu...For those that have tried both CES (alternating current) and tDCS, has anyone found either to be superior for depression/learning/anxiety. zoop34https://www.blogger.com/profile/06159956382632489276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-89414665925269688302014-01-05T01:12:27.494-05:002014-01-05T01:12:27.494-05:00In the normal course of events glucose is oxidised...In the normal course of events glucose is oxidised within the mitochondria (small organelles within the cells) to convert a molecule called cyclic AMP (cAMP) to an energy charged form called ATP.<br />ATP is the useable form of energy that drives all internal cellular organelles and regulates the ion pumps in the cell membrane that allow neurones to conduct information by electrical discharge.<br /><br />Current diets rich in trans fats are harmful to mitochondria as the trans fat is proven to accumulate within the mitochondria and impair their function.<br />It appears that other elements of Western lifestyle and diet may also be significant here as well - but degradation of mitochondrial numbers and functionality is one of the major correlates of ageing.<br /><br />Mitochondrial function may also be impaired by poor oxygen supply.<br />An example of this that we all know is when we overwork a muscle and it starts to hurt due to lactic acid accumulation as the cells resort to anaerobic metabolism once their available energy is consumed.<br /><br />Similarly- in the case of chronic muscle strain- the muscle will develop very tender nodules called trigger points.<br />At these points the muscle spasm is so intense that the muscle has cut off its own blood supply. As the cells continue to operate with insufficient oxygen, their functions become degraded and normal ion transfer across cell membranes does not occur. Lactic acid and free radicals accumulate - causing pain- and more spasm.<br /><br />Equally- when we get a bruise or an infected cut and it swells, the accumulation of fluid between cells (interstitial oedema) increases the distance between the cell and the nearest capillary, and the efficiency of oxygen transfer is impaired.<br /><br />So it is obvious that impaired oxygen supply or transfer or mitochondrial dysfunction will limit the functionality of the affected cells.<br /><br />Equally, if this situation is chronic, the issue of long term damage to the cells and even cell death (apoptosis), is a real concern. In the case of brain cells- these are largely not replaceable-- so we need to pay some attention here.<br /><br />As an aside:<br />I would argue that neuronal dysfunction (manifesting as mental fog, or emotional dysregulation) may well be a warning of impaired energy metabolism in the relevant cells. As there is research showing a statistical association between Alzheimers and various DSM disorders including ADHD, bipolar and depression-- this possibility certainly has got my attention.<br />I have no evidence to support the idea that CES may be neuroprotective- but do think it is a worthwhile question to ask.<br /><br />Now- as to reasons for impaired energy metabolism-- we come here to the recommended 7 point meditation posture:<br /><br />In short the slouched- upper crossed posture associated with prolonged desk work impairs both vertebral artery and vein function resulting in impaired blood flow to and venous drainage from the brain stem (including he reticular activating system/locus coeruleus) and the limbic system. This is made much worse if there is an underlying upper cervical injury/arthritis (both of which are common).<br />I hope this does not repeat last night's post.Andrew Kinsellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09347705850812381107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-72224684449868249062014-01-05T01:07:47.140-05:002014-01-05T01:07:47.140-05:00I forward here a posting I made on an ADHD forum r...I forward here a posting I made on an ADHD forum re the probable mechanism of Cranial Electrical Stimulation using the proprietary device AlphaStim.<br />This is a different model from tDCS, but is clinically highly effective, and has good research behind it.<br /><br />Waveforms used for CES are square waves- which, on penetrating the skin produce a wide scatter of harmonics. This is important as it seems that different tissues respond better to different harmonics- but we are not clear which matches ideally to which tissue, and often want to treat multiple tissues. Sine waves do not produce this scatter of harmonics.<br /><br />Proprietary versions of CES have had considerable research behind them to identify waveform algorithms that have maximum skin penetration, and produce a range of harmonics.<br />Many of these algorithms involve square waves that start with a sharp spike to improve skin penetration.<br />Frequency is important-- low frequency (0.5 Hz) achieves deeper tissue penetration.<br /><br />Currents in the Microampere (CES/tDCS) range are more effective than currents in the Milliampere range (TENS).<br /><br />These microcurrent electrotherapies can also be applied via probes or adhesive pad electrodes to treat painful or inflamed muscles. There is also evidence to support accelerated wound healing when they are used.<br />This application is called Microcurrent Electrotherapy (MET). I will cover MET in some detail below as it illustrates the mechanism of action of these therapies at a cellular level in a way that is obvious and can be confirmed in 2 minutes or less by anyone who has access to a machine and has a painful muscle they want to treat.<br /><br />I use Alpha-Stim myself both via ear clips- and by direct application of probes across painful muscles that are in spasm. As expected- I have lower levels of anxiety, better sleep, clearer focus, and am rapidly mastering a very nasty long term chronic pain condition involving my lower neck and thoracic spine. Meditation quality is improved as well.<br /><br /><br />I have spent time reviewing the available research and can come up with a number of key points on the mechanisms- but for clarity I will initially keep references to a minimum See next post as there are post length limits here:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Andrew Kinsellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09347705850812381107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-73697704177422681072014-01-04T09:10:44.110-05:002014-01-04T09:10:44.110-05:00HI Shinzen,
and thankyou for your useful resource....HI Shinzen,<br />and thankyou for your useful resource.<br /><br />I have recently acquired the Alpha-Stim tDCS device - which was done primarily to treat insomnia and muscular neck pain from an old birth injury (a rotatory subluxation of the atlas on the skull- - of over 20 degrees).<br /><br />I chose Alpha Stim because of the high quality research available on its website for its particular method using the algorithm thy have developed.<br /><br />From what I can see so far they have good evidence as to the usefulness of the device in<br />1) Electrically converting cyclic AMP to ATP in the treated tissues-- thus mimicking the effect of oxygen in deoxygenated tissues.<br />2) AlphaStim has been shown to entrain a theta or delta brainwave state while being used, but this state rebounds to a low alpha state after the stimulation ceases.<br />Most effective meditaters gravitate to a low alpha state as the predominant brainwave state.<br /><br />Meditation practitioners stress upright posture- with the ear canals vertically in line with the centre of the shoulder and hip joints, with the body drawn up to maximum height.<br /><br />Check these 2 pages:<br />http://www.upright-health.com/<br />http://www.upright-health.com/limbic-system.html<br /><br />The punchline-- a slouched head forwards posture (especially in the presence of common upper cervical injuries)compromises vertebral vein and vertebral artery function- impairing oxygenation of the limbic system and the brainstem, and also disrupts cerebrospinal fluid flow around the brain. The same posture also swings autonomic activity towards sympathetic dominance<br /><br />So- these poor postures significantly increase "bottom up" stress drives from the reptilian brain and impair the ability of the limbic system to discriminate as to the relevance of these bottom up signals (do they represent life threat or do they not?).<br /><br />The end result-- mental dullness and the reticular activating system in the brainstem is de-oxygenated, AND a mental state which is dominated by "environment scanning" to look for the threat which the body is feeling-- Ie "Monkey Mind" PLUS mental dullness all at once.<br /><br />I don't want to be seen as advocating for one brand or device- but honestly have not had the time to investigate the research behind the Fischer Wallace device (the other commercially significant competitor).<br /><br />However- my experience is that the device I use significantly enhances the quality of meditation.<br /><br />I work as a medical practitioner primarily applying mindfulness therapies to the management of ADHD.Andrew Kinsellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09347705850812381107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-50168300923719671212013-11-14T23:04:27.551-05:002013-11-14T23:04:27.551-05:00Another educational and useful link for you all, a...Another educational and useful link for you all, a recent UC-Davis summit on Brain Stimulation through tDCS:<br />https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/summit-on-brain-stimulation/id722275557Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-5812171840741109672013-11-08T01:19:49.345-05:002013-11-08T01:19:49.345-05:00Undoubtedly some people who've read this/are r...Undoubtedly some people who've read this/are reading this/will read this, may end up experimenting with this kind of technology. As with any kind of direct neuro-modulation (whether it be drugs of any kind, or stimulation devices like tDCS and others) knowledge is power - and safety!<br /><br />I just came across this collection of manuals: <br />http://www.trans-cranial.com/manuals<br />alot of the stuff there is relating to the device that they sell, but there's some useful information (about brodmann areas etc) there for anyone with any kind of tDCS device.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-49640532845504425692013-11-05T06:37:40.587-05:002013-11-05T06:37:40.587-05:00Well Anonymous, I just had my first session with t...Well Anonymous, I just had my first session with the foc.us tdcs.<br /><br />I was a bit apprehensive before testing, and even more so when I felt the initial tingling as I turned it on.<br /><br />But I did some sitting practice, and after a few minutes I could tell that it unquestionably leant an ecstatic & effortless quality to my concentration power. Slid into a deep groove of breath-focus far more swiftly and easily than normal.<br /><br />Obviously a first experiment is far to early to draw conclusions, but I'm pretty excited about my strange new friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-25856255160765574202013-08-30T07:34:23.693-04:002013-08-30T07:34:23.693-04:00tDCS is great. I feel like it was shining light in...tDCS is great. I feel like it was shining light in my head while using it and gives me entirely new perspective to everything, self-less, softer and at the same time I feel much stronger. Definitely less depressed.<br /><br />But the best part about it is that it can be so extremely easily made and for such little overall cost.<br /><br />@Shinzen<br />had you used it yet?<br />if yes what is your first hand opinion? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-75354278107357825642013-07-27T23:35:35.127-04:002013-07-27T23:35:35.127-04:00Shinzen,
I feel that the use of devices such as t...Shinzen,<br /><br />I feel that the use of devices such as the tDCS open a very large can of worms. You need look no further than the article that was posted somewhere in this thread, describing someone's first-hand account of using a tDCS device in order to make themselves more adept at destroy targets with an M-14, to realise that this approach to 'boosting' definitely raises certain ethical questions.<br /><br />Rather than using technology to directly manipulate the material component of ourselves in order to change our minds why don't we continue along the Buddhist notion that changes in the mind lead to changes in the brain.<br /><br />I think more focus needs to be applied to the researching and fine-tuning of Neurofeedback (NFB) as a means to boost people's meditation progress rather than directly stimulating the brain. NFB is by no means a new technology and I do not need to explain to someone of your experience that a person who observes with equanimity, the sensations and thoughts arising in their mind/body are actually performing a form of NFB with no hardware required. You could even go as far as saying that meditation and NFB could be interchangeable as definitions in some respects.<br /><br />Thanks to a YouTube Video of yours that explained to me the kind of radical boost that sittings of strong determination can give a person's meditation practice, I have experienced first-hand the incredible potency that lies within NFB. Although pain as a feedback device is not going to appeal to most people, there are technological possibilities that will appeal.<br /><br />I totally respect and agree with your convictions that technology can be used to help produce more enlightened individuals who in turn will help to steer the world in a better direction. There is definitely a need to make 'industrial strength' meditation more accessible to the world at large and to develop a technology which can indeed help to boost people's progress.<br /><br />There are already some great NFB devices out on the market and I feel that if someone with the right expertise could invent a device which is particularly intuitive and seductive in its design as well as being highly accurate in its EEG readings, then NFB could be used as a 'gateway' into meditation. Once such devices become affordable and portable, they could be introduced to children and teachers in primary schools and eventually integrated into the curriculum so that in the lower years, children could learn to put themselves into highly focused states with the help of interesting and age appropriate interfaces. As children get older and pass through the various grades of school, they could be then weaned onto less hardware dependent forms of NFS and then eventually onto NFS in its most essential form which is meditation in the traditional sense.<br /> <br />With such a framework in mind, it seems to me that technology should be used as an interface between western thought and eastern practice; a means of grabbing people's interest and showing them that meditation is not this far-out thing that needs to be done on top of a mountain somewhere by someone with a long beard who sleeps on a bed of nails. If a child is sick and needs to take some medicine but hates the taste what do you do? You disguise the medicine with something the child likes such as strawberry flavour and you put it in a nice colourful box with pretty pictures on it and only then, once you have the child's attention, you administer the medicine.<br /> <br />The same can be said for meditation. If meditation needs to be disguised as a tantalising immersion into a virtual reality world for people to start noticing how mindfulness effects their state of being then so be it. The skills that they learn from such technologically aided explorations into consciousness will give them a taste of silence and in a lot of cases, that's all people need to set the wheels in motion and continue along the path towards ever more profound levels of peace and purity.<br /><br /><br />Kind Regards,<br /><br />Andrew<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07867053674854227312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-23626093753398873602013-07-13T04:56:24.011-04:002013-07-13T04:56:24.011-04:00An advanced biofeedback technology called Ondamed ...An advanced biofeedback technology called Ondamed is available for treatment of a vast array of both physical and psychological disorders. Ondamed machines are very expensive (upwards of $20,000) but I have used one during many sessions at a trained practitioner's office and found it very powerful and very helpful. Btw, the website is hilariously bad but dig beneath the surface and you can find a lot of information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-91279376013828026902013-07-12T16:42:38.889-04:002013-07-12T16:42:38.889-04:00UPDATE - 7/12/13 -
Hi folks, I wanted to update t...UPDATE - 7/12/13 - <br />Hi folks, I wanted to update this blog post: Recently there’s been some concern about the safety issues because so many people have been experimenting on their own. Check it out:<br /><br />DIY Brain Stimulation Raises Concerns<br />http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/807593<br />Shinzenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744561308696460214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-44556320357353002552013-06-16T02:49:53.988-04:002013-06-16T02:49:53.988-04:00No need to wait for the results of people who boug...No need to wait for the results of people who bought the foc.us (tDCS) device in order to see if tDCS works or not. There are already over a thousand scientific studies on tDCS that validate both its safety and efficacy to produce positive results for both medical and non-medical (cogntiive enhancement) purposes. Ask google.Peternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-30649189675517293732013-05-31T11:59:14.351-04:002013-05-31T11:59:14.351-04:00Well, the first (?) mass-produced device is out no...Well, the first (?) mass-produced device is out now: http://www.foc.us.<br /><br />Personally, I'm interested in this thing for language learning (Japanese is tough!). <br /><br />Although many official studies seem positive, I have been very satisfied with my brain/intelligence so far, so I will wait and see if the mainstream has any practical results and/or mental collapses. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-8972743455411092492013-05-27T16:18:51.340-04:002013-05-27T16:18:51.340-04:00Thanks. Have you considered using the See Flow tec...Thanks. Have you considered using the See Flow technique to work with the visuals of the HPPD? Perhaps along with the Focus In technique to work with the anxiety.<br /><br />Basic Mindfulness practice manual http://www.shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/FiveWays.pdf<br />--Focus In - Chapter 1 pp. 21-28<br />--See Flow - p. 53<br /><br />FYI, one of the top guys in the tDCS field (http://www.neuromodulationlab.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=55&Itemid=137) is now interested in mindfulness. Why does this not surprise me? <br /><br />All the best,<br />ShinzenShinzenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744561308696460214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-67934613526772985752013-05-20T00:29:34.071-04:002013-05-20T00:29:34.071-04:00Found an interesting video on youtube (youtube.com...Found an interesting video on youtube (youtube.com/watch?v=-hWy2GTfFiA) with Professor Colleen Loo talking about her research into tdcs, tms, and ketamine. They appear to be getting some very interesting results with the technology. Worth further investigation for sure.Darninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-52318100064283165702013-05-20T00:24:28.882-04:002013-05-20T00:24:28.882-04:00tDCS doesn't need to teach dharma or morality,...tDCS doesn't need to teach dharma or morality, since both of these can spontaneously arise as a result of attainment of enlightened states of being. Once an individual attains to that degree of awareness/consciousness, where is the need for them to be trained in morality?Darninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-12685180115976466992013-05-11T09:39:18.505-04:002013-05-11T09:39:18.505-04:00Hello,
I found your article whilst doing searches ...Hello,<br />I found your article whilst doing searches on tDCS. Currently I have built my own tDCS device using a 12V battery. A very simple design and quite effective. I have only tried it once now, and I can report the effects I get are more than appreciable. I am researching the possible implementation of tDCS in a rare disorder called HPPD, which I suffer from. I found that albeit not mitigating any of the visual symptoms that characterizes HPPD, it has a good potential for alleviating the accomponied derealization, cognitive deficits, anxiety and depression. There was a distinct silence I can only compare to the meditative states I was able to experience before having this disorder, which I found very liberating. Furthermore I experienced a transient, but vivid, "jump" back into reality. I felt alive for the very first time in a year! My mind was significantly clearer.<br /><br />Seeing the lack of sufficient anecdotal evidence, I thought you might appreciate some feedback on the effects of tDCS. I have yet to experiment further with different setting and Amperage, however my initial results seem very promising.<br /><br />Lastly, I wanted to point you to the rising of different commercial tDCS devices. There's the GoFlow being developed. The Foc.Us seems to hold more marketing potential, and it's electrode placement is more logical. Perhaps it would be a good place to start, should you decide to explore tDCS.<br /><br />Be well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-34641818590593288382013-02-09T10:39:52.497-05:002013-02-09T10:39:52.497-05:00Hey folks,
I'll comment more on this wonderful...Hey folks,<br />I'll comment more on this wonderful thread in the future. In the meantime, wanted to share this article Jeff Warren just sent me: http://theweek.com/article/index/226196/how-electrical-brain-stimulation-can-change-the-way-we-think<br />All the best, <br />ShinzenShinzenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744561308696460214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-79453205181166660662013-01-19T00:24:49.299-05:002013-01-19T00:24:49.299-05:00I have a background in both electrical engineering...I have a background in both electrical engineering and meditation, and about a month ago--not long after first hearing about the technology--built a tDCS machine from scratch. I've been using it semi-regularly, and so far have been impressed. I use it mostly when working, as it delivers a near-instant "flow" state, or if I've been stuck on a difficult problem (an anterio-temporal lobe montage will generally lead to a flash of insight within minutes). And placing the electrodes on two specific spots on my forehead helps with anxiety and mood. (I don't use it for meditation, as I consider my practice a "practice" and prefer the exercise to the experience, if that makes sense!) <br /><br />I will say that although building the machine was simple, finding the right placement for both electrodes took no small amount of trial-and-error: the publicized montages didn't always work for me and sometimes moving the cathode or anode a few centimeters in one direction or another made a marked difference. <br /><br />I don't claim to be an expert in the field and concur that my experiences might be placebo (I have no way to do a double-blind test on myself, and beyond this am more concerned with the results than the mechanism of the results). Still, I'm hoping more people will start experimenting. If nothing else the technology seems to have fewer side effects than psychopharmaceuticals, and after my initial experience I'd be interested to hear what those struggling with more serious anxiety or depression might find. Simonehttp://www.reddit.com/r/tDCSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-60424213170481310352013-01-06T11:35:49.757-05:002013-01-06T11:35:49.757-05:00Have any of you actually used tDCS? If so, what ar...Have any of you actually used tDCS? If so, what are your experiences? I think what is missing is for people to describe their own daily personal experiences. I would be curious to hear from people with respect to your personal experiences with tDCS. I think it is an interesting technology that has potential to help enhance a variety of things our minds do for us. It could just be a very personalized type of thing. Surely my meditations are not the same as yours. Why would my experience with tDCS be any different? It would be nice to share more specific experiences with others though. This way we could coletcively determine if there is something common amongst us with respect to the best practices for applying noninvasive neuromodulation like tDCS.<br />echo"AT"nesyx.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1621407185903447523.post-44934701413686632092012-11-24T23:53:17.025-05:002012-11-24T23:53:17.025-05:00Hi Shinzen - I just came across your blog now for ...Hi Shinzen - I just came across your blog now for the first time. Been a fan of your audiobooks on meditation for a while now...<br /><br />I recently learned about tDCS from a Scientific American article. Mostly interested in how tDCS might enhance cognitive ability and concentration.<br /><br />It's interesting to me that the benefits some have observed from experimenting with tDCS "treatments" bear some similarity to the benefits I get from meditation.<br /><br />I look forward to getting my own kit as soon as the group at flowstateengaged.com has their proposed kit available!<br /><br />Great stuff! Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12102801585362125341noreply@blogger.com